Dr. Ayla Wolf  00:00

Hey, listeners. Ayla Wolf, here, I've been talking about my book for six months now, and I can finally say it's finished. You can find my book on Amazon. It is titled the concussion breakthrough. Discover the missing pieces to recovery. Just look for the light gray cover with a water colored puzzle piece brain, and you'll be in the right spot. I'll put a link in the show notes as well.

 

In this episode of the podcast, I have a very honest and open conversation with an absolutely wonderful soul, Chaandani Khan. I listened to her speak on a different podcast, and I immediately looked her up because I knew I wanted to talk to her. Six years ago, a brain injury derailed Chaandani's entire life, which left her navigating persistent post concussion symptoms, what she refers to as PPCS in the episode and an overwhelming amount of loss. Preparing a cup of tea, washing clothes and sending emails became monumental challenges, and her familiar fast paced lifestyle appeared impossibly far out of reach, going through years of recovery appointments and eventually ingraining herself in the concussion space allowed her to identify key gaps and the demand For a new path forward. She is now a survivor turned educator for practitioners who serve the concussion PPCS population. She currently teaches educational workshops and looks forward to announcing the launch of her learning community for professionals in 2025 she aims to lead lasting change in the overall space through education and innovation. And I hope you enjoy this conversation with Chaandani as much as I did. Thanks again for listening to the show. If you wouldn't mind taking a minute and leaving us a quick review that helps listeners like you find us a little bit easier.

 

Welcome to Life After Impact, the Concussion Recovery Podcast. I'm Dr Ayla Wolf, and I will be hosting today's episode where we help you navigate the often confusing, frustrating and overwhelming journey of concussion and brain injury recovery. This podcast is your go to resource for actionable information, whether you're dealing with a recent concussion, struggling with post concussion syndrome or just feeling stuck in your healing process. In each episode, we dive deep into the symptoms, testing treatments and neurological insights that can help you move forward with clarity and confidence. We bring you leading experts in the world of brain health, functional neurology and rehabilitation to share their wisdom and strategies. So if you're feeling lost, hopeless or like no one understands what you're going through, know that you are not alone. This podcast can be your guide and partner in recovery, helping you build a better life after impact.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  03:00

Chaandani, thank you for coming on to the life after impact podcast, and I'm very much looking forward to our conversation.

 

Chaandani Khan  03:06

Thank you for having me. I as well. I'm looking forward to diving in with you.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  03:10

Yeah, why don't you start by telling us a little bit about your story and kind of what your life looked like before your head injury, and then what happened after.

 

Chaandani Khan  03:21

Sure. So to be able to share the intensity and the gravity of the situation and the injury, I'd like to share a little bit about my old self first. So I used to work in the events industry, and for those who know, it is chaotic, it is demanding, it is wild, but it's also so much fun. And you know, in that industry, I was traveling frequently as well, as, you know, working 50 to 70 hours a week at times. I also had a very busy social life. I had hobbies and sports, and I was an avid volunteer for many years, actually, since childhood. So as you can see, I was living a very fulsome life. And then, you know, one day I was in a car accident, which was actually six years ago, and I had neck and back injuries, but by far the worst was a concussion, brain injury that I sustained.

 

Chaandani Khan  04:06

 

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  04:06

Do you can you speak a little bit to maybe the immediate symptoms that you had, as well as kind of maybe symptoms that became more obvious as time went on?

 

Chaandani Khan  04:13

Yeah, and that's a really good question. I appreciate that you're pulling it apart that way. Because, you know, initially, after the injury, you know, I had a lot of trouble understanding basic conversation. I had a lot of trouble, you know, with word finding. I felt really, just really odd. I felt like I was in this brain fog, this really, sort of distant space from where I physically was. I was having a hard time with all types of memory, working memory was especially challenging for me. So to be able to, you know, be active and engaged in someone speaking to me or any given task, and they had challenges around, you know, light sensitivity, sound sensitivity, and so on and so forth. But the interesting thing is, as we know now with concussions, is that some symptoms do show up right after the injury, whereas

 

Chaandani Khan  04:59

Others kind of evolve in time, whether it's a couple days or a couple weeks, etc. Now I just to really add some color context to this. I went from living that fulsome life that I described to all of a sudden being a person who did not know how to make a sandwich anymore. So it just didn't make sense for me. Also, you know, other basic skills like I it just evaded me, leaving the house with two shoes on my feet, you know, I would somehow scramble try to grab what I needed, leave the house, get outside, look down, and I'd see one shoe and one sock. And I like, internally, I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't actually cognitively figure out what the problem was. So I would just cry and cry and cry, and then I would just be a mess of tears and confusion. And, you know, some other examples, is, I like to show up in a very vulnerable, raw way, to really lead by example. So even even, you know, being able to find clean clothes every day, that was something that was extraordinarily challenging for me. You know, I'd go into my closet, I look around, I'd get distracted. I wasn't sure what I was doing. I wasn't focusing. I wasn't paying attention. You know that? What I know now to be prefrontal cortex, you know, skills of whether it's like analysis or organizing or planning or thinking, you know, through complex tasks, I just, it just was too much for me to be able to think this is a clean shirt I should take off the one that I'm wearing and put it on so, you know,

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  06:17

yeah, that's got to be so scary to I mean, event planning is like my worst nightmare, because there's so many moving parts to planning an event. Yes, so for me, maybe with all of my concussions, whenever there's an event that I'm supposed to help plan, it's my least favorite thing, because I don't think my brain likes to have to work in that way. So for you to be this, you know, expert level event planner to then not even being able to understand like how to find clean clothes and put shoes on and make a sandwich. I mean, that had to have been so scary.

 

Chaandani Khan  06:50

It was it was it was scary. It was overwhelming. You know, at that time though, I realized now that I didn't have the cognitive wherewithal to have the luxury of introspecting and thinking, wow, this is scary. It was just, I was just in the situation. It was full on. I was overwhelmed. I was anxious about it. I was crying for these unknown reasons. It just was very different. And a note on events is that I absolutely love logistics. I've always loved logistics. I love the chaos. I still have love in my heart for the chaos of events. That's first not what I do anymore. It's not probably where I absolutely excel at the same level, but I still have that love for it, and you can call me next time you have an event you're working with.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  07:30

Well, I plan on doing a book launch.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  07:36

okay, so that's so you were very symptomatic and pretty immediately after the injury. And then you also had the physical injuries, with the neck injury too. Tell me a little bit about some of the initial therapies that you sought out. And where were you finding the most help either, you know, right away.

 

Chaandani Khan  07:54

 So you know, it's one of those things I kind of sigh first before answering this question, because what I know now, I wish I knew then there isn't necessarily, like a standardized process that every single person with a concussion is is put through. Right? There is so much variance in the space. So when I speak about this, it very much is speaking to my own experience. And I'll, for now, I'll hold on speaking to the experience of others. So for me, in a hyper specific way, I was initially referred over to body based treatment. So, you know, chiropractor, a physiotherapist, RMT, and from there, you know,

 

Chaandani Khan  08:34

these, one of the professionals that I worked with at that point in time was concussion informed, and was able to identify other areas that I should be looking at. You know, we added a kinesiologist to this team, and so on and so forth. In my personal experience, I, you know, also had a doctor and a neurologist, and I saw, you know, holistic care like acupuncture, and I saw an osteopath who specializes in cranial treatment and concussion and, you know, there were actually more than this. There is a bit of a laundry list. So I was seeing, you know, a whole collection of professionals. Initially, I was in appointments, you know, a few times a week, sometimes up to five days a week, and this lasted for a few years of my life.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  09:14

Wow, that's a lot of therapy.

 

Chaandani Khan  09:17

Yes, absolutely.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  09:20

I that really resonates with me, too, in terms of, you know when, when you when any healthcare provider takes a class on concussions, they always start the class with once you've seen one concussion, you've seen one concussion. But the truth also is that once you've seen one doctor, you've seen one doctor, and so the degree to which that healthcare provider is informed on concussions and can step in and provide the guidance and the recommendations of well, let's, you know, let's look at this aspect and that aspect. And have have we looked at the neurocognitive testing? Have we done the right assessments for the neck injuries? Have we, you know. Looked into the, the mental health side of it, you know, there's, like you said, there's so many places where somebody can fall through the cracks or not necessarily, have all, all parts of it get addressed

 

Chaandani Khan  10:12

absolutely and what you're, you know, I love that expression that you that you shared. I haven't heard the other half of it that you shared, as well about the practitioner side, but it's very interesting. And I mean, that that's the exact thing, is that from the patient perspective, you know, different now, if I zoom out a little bit and think about, you know, hundreds of people with PPCs that I've heard pain points and challenges from over the years, you know, it's just, it's a very different path forward. And as you said, there are a lot of factors. I mean, of course there are personal factors. There might be pre existing conditions, might be mental health, but but if we kind of set those aside and look at the similarities in term of the concussion experience, I mean, it would be incredible if we were able to push to a place where there is a standardized treatment, standardized testing, and then there's specific treatment that everyone just goes through right now patients are very much relying on while the onus is fault does fall on the patient in terms of concussion and PPCs recovery.

 

So you know, maybe it's on you to think, what's wrong with me during a time when your brain that your cognitive skills are not there the way they used to be. Maybe you know you're researching, but again, you're having trouble being on a laptop, reading the words, comprehending what you're reading, also just relying on being sent to various professionals who, you know, I say this very respectfully, a lot of professionals can treat, but not all professionals are concussion informed, and that makes a massive difference in terms of really being able to meet the patient where they're at and serve them in a way that works, and that sets them up for the greatest patient Success and patient outcome.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  11:40

Absolutely. And, you know, I think when you use the term persistent post concussion syndrome, you know, I that's what my book is really. That is who my book is for. And I think that most of the books out there, the educational materials out there, are kind of this standard, like, oh, you get a concussion, and here's what it looks like, but it's still very much that acute stage. And so once you have somebody who clearly is not healing in the kind of expected short window of time, and they go on to have these persistent symptoms, that's where I think people do end up falling through the through the cracks more. And so that was really, you know, the that was the group of people that my book was geared towards, is the people who are like, okay, you know, I'm now a year out, and I'm still symptomatic. So what do I do next, and what maybe got missed, you know, over the last 12 months, that I still need to address. So I'm curious, you know, can you talk about where you are now, six years after, and how are you doing, and are there still therapies you're pursuing?

 

Chaandani Khan  12:49

I will happily dive right into those questions, but I just wanted to comment and say that I am so excited about your book. I am thrilled that you have written it for that population. I refer to PPCS, persistent post concussive symptoms, also known as PCS and a few other terms. In my in my experience, in my opinion, in my realm, this is a fairly you know, forgotten segment, although current research is telling us that approximately 30% of concussion cases do become persistent. Now that's 1000s upon 1000s of people who are sitting in that level of stuckness, and like you said, they're a year out, they're five years out, so on and so forth, and they still have symptoms, or just, you know, various limitations in their life because of symptoms they may or may not be aware of. So I just wanted to pepper that in and say that I'm so thrilled that you've created this book and this incredible resource, and I'm looking forward to reading it. So now where was I going next? I was going to give a little check in of where I'm at now, six years later. Yes. Okay, so, yeah.

 

So actually, as of last month, it was my six year anniversary. And you know, in a lot of ways, I have improved a ton, scientifically speaking, a ton I, I've made, you know, leaps and bounds. I've built back skills. A lot of this has been very intentional work, like building back skills, building up different parts of my brain, you know, really, really pushing forward, if that makes sense, in, you know, in in a way that works for me and my body, in a way that was guided so in this space, I mean, maybe you found us as well. In concussion space, you're often taught to when you're answering, how are you doing? You're taught to compare back, how are you today versus one year ago, versus three versus five? And so if I answer that way, I'd say, I'm doing pretty, pretty amazing. I will also be honest and continue showing up in my vulnerable way and say that there are a few things that are still not my 100% functioning. However, when you know I do know how my brain works right now, like I'm very well aware how my brain works and when I practice what I preach, in terms of showing up in ways that work for my brain, or engaging in various pacing strategies, I can be incredibly effective, incredibly limitless. Because it's just the times that, you know, I do push outside of that, then I still do find a bit of a challenge. So, you know, I share that again. And means of just really saying, Hey, I am an expert in this space. I understand where you've been. I've been there. I can help you through. And further, I aim to pave a different path forward for people with PPCS, because I don't think it has to be as hard as it is right now.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  15:20

Yeah, there's a, I don't know if he would call himself a business coach, but his name is Rory Vaden, and he always likes to say that you are in the position to help the person that you once were. And so I think, you know, that's where I think you and I have a lot of similarities. Is like we've both been had this lived experience, and now we're in a place where we're trying to create resources for people. The book that I wrote was very much a book that I would have loved to have read back in 2012 you know, when I was when I had a number of concussions close together, and that was really kind of the height of my, you know, experience with a lot of post concussion syndrome was 2012 to 2014

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  16:04

for sure. And so, yeah, I mean, I really like, I wrote that book for, you know, the person I was back then. You know, I would have loved to have had this book when I was going through it back then. And I think that it sounds like what you're doing right now in terms of creating these programs and these resources for healthcare providers, is to say, Man, if I had had an experience where I could go to somebody who truly understood this in a in a really deep way, that would have been really, really helpful.

 

Chaandani Khan  16:36

absolutely, and that's absolutely understand where you're coming from, saying that you wrote This book thinking of, you know, you back then, needing this type of resource first. My first thought that comes to my mind is that that is one thing that is just missing in the concussion recovery space is that there isn't just one single resource. There isn't one, you know, one stop shop where people can be like, I have an injury. I'm going here. Every single thing will be looked at. Now, I want to be careful and say that, you know, when you think about the realm of sport, that I tend to separate that as I believe that sport is a bit of a beast of its own in different ways. But you know, my focus in particular is the everyday person who wants to return to their life and return to their lifestyle. So that comes up first and foremost for me.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  17:18

Yeah, and you're absolutely right, when somebody gets a concussion, like, like, your experience, you said, Well, I had to go to five different providers every single week and have five different appointments and see the acupuncturist and the Osteopath and the physical therapist and the massage therapist and the chiropractor and and you had to craft your own kind of team of healthcare providers to help you. And it is true, we don't really have, like, the a concussion center for everybody that they can just go to and have all of the tests done and then see all the providers who are all working together.

 

Chaandani Khan  17:55

Yeah, just get everyone sorry. Just so passionate about this point I'm just jumping right in, yes, like, imagine that we could do that, you know. And in the meantime, I mean, that's not going to be like a snap fingers and move overnight type of thing, but in the meantime, resources like your book, for example, or, you know, the way that I'm able to bring lived experience together to present to practitioners. I feel like these types of changes in the space are impactful, and they are taking us in that direction, to be able to take from what we know so well and equip others who are already incredibly talented and educated and experts in different spaces, but just to give that extra edge to them so that they're really able to understand. And in your case, it's for people to really deeply understand, like, what the heck is going on with me? What can I do about it? Dot. Dot. Dot. How do I get back to my life?

 

For me, it's, you know, approaching various practitioners who are experts in, you know, the practical treatment and the education. But maybe they haven't lived PPCS before. They haven't lived concussion before, so they're hyper focused in their area, which perhaps is a hands on physical body treatment. But you know, are they aware that, for example, their patient is having massive issues around comprehension, and they can't quite understand the at home exercises you're telling them to do, so therefore they're dropping off or so on and so forth. And I'm hoping to, you know, be able to bring everybody onto a similar page, and to bridge that massive gap that I see between patient need and the way the medical system, at times, provides that support.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  19:22

Yeah, do you want to talk a little bit about the types of educational content you've developed?

 

Chaandani Khan  19:28

Yes, I do. I'm so excited to be able to be I feel like it's such a privilege to be in this position to go through a really, really deeply humbling life experience like this, followed by rebuilding all parts of my life, and then be able to ingrain myself in the space with 1000s of others who have actively have PPCs, hear their pain points, and then create something that I feel paves the path forward. So that, you know that's underlying my eagerness to say, Absolutely, I do. Um.

 

Chaandani Khan  20:00

And so what I'm doing right now is, I, I'm teaching educational workshops that are rooted in real life insight to various concussion practitioners. There has been a very, you know, thus far, there's been a very natural fit for me to serve chiropractors and physiotherapists. You know, at this point in time, I've, I've been in touch with, you know, various practitioners as well as clinics, and there are certain pain points, if you will, within those spaces as these professionals provide this, this incredible hands on treatment. And you know, if someone hasn't, like I said a moment ago, if they haven't lived the full, the full experience of PPCs, and potentially, aren't aware of all the different parts that are affecting a patient at any given time, you know, I'm able to provide education, practical strategies and some deep insight to help fill in those gaps for them.

 

I want to be really clear that my goal in doing this is not to drown professionals in a level of information. It's really to skim the surface, to help them understand what is the patient perspective, what are the hidden challenges that they could be facing that are affecting the patient from either engaging in your therapy, returning to appointments, so on and so forth, or even expressing what is really going on in their body, followed by actionable steps that the practitioner can take in the form of practical strategies. They're able to put them in place right away, same day after we had a session together.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  21:26

So amazing. Can you give me an example, like one, one of those things that somebody could put into practice right away?

 

Chaandani Khan  21:33

Yes, I sure can. Let me think of one that is fairly common and applicable to most. So one thing and this, I want to just also give a disclaimer that a lot, a lot of these strategies at the at the onset, might sound fairly simplistic, but really the magic is understanding why you're doing it and then stacking multiple strategies together. That is where you're able to really help to alter how you're showing up to meet the patient where they are. So, for example, a lot of, in my experience, a lot of physiotherapists and chiropractors get, you know, very excited with with patient education. And so the you know, end of the appointment comes and, you know, maybe they're, they're ready to off board for that particular appointment. They're wrapping up. They want to tell the patient, you know, what exercises to engage in. How many times they want to also say, Do you have any plans this weekend? Oh, and also, by the way, the reason you're doing exercise is for and then they insert some interesting education about the body and about the patient's injury they're working through. So for me, for example, you know, when I work with physios and chiros one to one, I ask them, I'm like, Hey, can you give me an example of how you're wrapping up an appointment? And so, because for me, at this point in time, it's very it's very quick and easy, with the knowledge that I have to be able to say, okay, these are the sections that you're going to be talking about. Let's look to how can we, how can we present them in a way that will again, match the patient where they're at?

 

And one really simple thing we can be aware of is is not sharing too many topics at one point in time within the same space. Another piece is really even more simple, is just to control how you're speaking. It's to slow down your speech. It's to insert very intentional pauses as well. And this gives the time, gives time for patients to be able to cognitively, you know, have the opportunity to catch up a little bit and to be able to actually really engage with what's being said. You know, underlying this that you and various concussion experts may know is that overwhelm is a very common symptom that patients face a PCS with concussion. This can be from when you wake up in the morning you are just feeling overwhelmed, or it can be with receiving a certain amount of information, or information at a certain speed. So it's really, you know, equipping professionals to understand what's going on for the patient at any given time so they can alter the behavior and meet the patient where they're at. Because at the end of the day, we're all in this because we want those incredible patient outcomes.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  23:56

So I'm kind of internally smiling as you talk, because I love to teach, and I think, if anything, I'm super guilty of everything you just talked about.

 

Chaandani Khan  24:08

I saw you smiling.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  24:10

I'm like, Okay, I probably overshare way too much information. It's probably information overload. I'm probably talking too fast, not taking breaks.

 

Chaandani Khan  24:20

I mean, it's coming from a great place. I know it is. I mean, with you personally, but with with everyone in this space, yeah, so I saw you smiling. I was like, I know this is, I know this is landing.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  24:33

Oh, yeah. I'm super guilty of all of those things,

 

Chaandani Khan  24:35

but, but that's the cool thing about this, is that the more and more people that I speak with I mean, this is just skimming the surface, like, I like to do a deeper dive with people, and really understand, how are you showing up? And I'm able to very quickly customize a plan forward, you know. And then I also ask everyone, like, follow up with me, let me know how it's going.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  24:54

And I think one of the things that I learned, you know, early on in in that the day. Dangers of, kind of throwing too much information at somebody too is, you know, I do a comprehensive exam where I gather a lot of information about a lot of different systems in the brain, and I so I can speak to how is somebody's, you know, parietal lobe, in terms of the mapping of their body. And I think at the start of really getting into this, I was just so excited about all the neuroanatomy and neurophysiology, and I'd be trying to educate people on this stuff that I thought was so cool. But then what I realized is that these people were taking the information, but then they it was like a horrible game of telephone, where then they'd go to their other doctor and say, Oh, well, I just saw Dr Wolf, and she told me my, you know, my parietal lobe is broken. And it's like, Well, okay, I didn't say that.

 

Chaandani Khan  25:51

Your paraphrasing this. Yeah.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  25:53

And so I was like, okay, the game of telephone is happening, and I don't now want these other doctors to think that I'm telling patients something I'm not.

 

Chaandani Khan  26:02

Yes, that's very real. It is real.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  26:06

And, you know, sometimes, so I knew that I wanted to be in healthcare from like, the age of six, and so I forget that there's a whole world of people out there that they're not in this field, and the terminology is not second nature to them. And so when I start going on and on about dysautonomia, and you know, different parts of the brain, I think a lot of people are just like you're speaking Greek to me right now. And I so I think that something that has become so familiar to me and ingrained in my psyche. I forget that is just a totally different world. If I tried to hang out with a mathematician, I would just be like, I don't I don't understand what you're talking about. Or even like a car mechanic, I'm like, does not compute.

 

Chaandani Khan  26:58

Exactly, right? And and that's with the way that your brain is operating now, right? And imagine having those in depth conversations with that mechanic or with a mathematician when you were in that post concussive state, right? And I don't mean this, people who are listening can't see us just like smirking away. We're just, we're smirking pretty hard here. And I want to say again, I know it comes from, like you said, it's just, it's a place of enthusiasm, it's sharing, it's passion. And I love that. And you are one of my favorite types to work with, because you know what you're describing. It's actually so so common. And you know, that gives me actually, a lot of hope and around people who do treat the concussion population. Because nowadays, especially in the past five, six years, we've seen a lot increased uptake in research, in discussion, in funding, in so many you know, people paving new paths forward. And so when I have the privilege of working with various health practitioners who serve that population and are excited and lit up to educate and to talk about what they're doing with the person, that fuels me with hope, because it wasn't always that way. You know, it's really what, even in the past 10 years, we've seen massive changes, let alone, you know, if we continue going decades back, but where we're at right now, I just feel like we're it's so timely to be really empowering everyone, to just understand a bit about the beneath the surface, the behind the scenes of the experience, so that we're able to continue, you know, giving a new path forward and helping people recover, maybe it's more efficiently, maybe it's more effectively, etc,

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  28:27

yeah, there's, you know, there is a lot of thought that could go into a lot of the the layout of even a clinic. And so, because I've had my concussions, and I've had light sensitivity. And there's certain backgrounds that I don't like, I completely understand. When people come into my office and they say, Hey, I need you to dim the lights. I need you to turn off the white noise machine, can we turn the blinds all the way up so that there's not this contrast between the sky and then the blackout curtains like so when people come into my office. That's the kind of stuff that I can completely jump on board with, because I'm I completely understand it. So there's certain things that I'm good at, but then, like I said, I'm like, Okay, I'm probably not so good at the slow down, the talking. Take some pauses, make sure that people are still with you.

 

Chaandani Khan  29:22

well, but I'm so glad that you're mentioning this, because it's, it's so it's so common what you're saying with with experts in various spaces, just like yourself, and you know what you're describing, I have so many thoughts when I try to consolidate where we're going here in my point. But you know, with various patients or clients coming to see you and asking for specific shifts in the physical environment, that, of course, of course, that would land, and of course, then you're like, of course, I'll do this for you, and it makes sense for our treatment, or it doesn't, depending on how you're treating. I can't speak to that, but I also want to say that, you know, when I why I'm so lit up about serving practitioners in this way is because often, just, you know, practice. And expertise set aside for a moment. We are all just human. And so often, as humans, we just, we look for visual cues to help guide us, whether we're in conversation or we're doing an intake form or anything like that. And this is something also that I bring to the attention of people that I that I serve, is just, you know, in the concussion of PPCS space masking is an incredibly common activity that people engage in for a variety of reasons. And when I say masking, I mean someone who's, you know, maybe their brain, maybe they're not able to listen, they're not following language, maybe they're in pain, maybe their mind is they're not focusing, they're not paying attention, the lights distracting, etc, etc, right? Maybe they're not really present, but externally, they might be just nodding along and smiling, much like you and I are right now on this conversation, right?

 

So I also really, you know, want to bring that in front of people and say that that is why what I'm doing, I feel, is really helping to pave a path by partnering with professionals and just really meeting professionals where they're at. You know, it's when you are when you have such a level of expertise built in a field like you said. You're not necessarily thinking on this sort of micro step level, but that's where I come in, and that's why it's so complimentary for me to be able to bring this in and, you know, help equip you to continue really helping people get where they need to

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  31:15

Yeah, that's a really good point that you make. So somebody could be nodding along, acting like they're completely engaged in what you're saying, but the reality is that they might be completely checked out, and their brain maybe just kind of shuts off in a moment, or they're too distracted by the something, a noise, or the lighting, or all that stuff. And so I do often, you know, check in with my patients when they come in and I'm asking them, do you want these lights off? Do you want the shades up? Do you want the music off? Because I know that these are really important things that could completely derail a treatment if the entire time they're in the room, they're uncomfortable,

 

Chaandani Khan  31:53

yeah, absolutely. And I'm so glad like, you know, with your lived experience, you're already, you know, leaps and bounds beyond perhaps a practitioner that hasn't had that opportunity, should we say, to live the experience and to know those things that you know and you know, I'll just share something that came to mind when you were describing the environment and patients or clients making requests. It takes me back a few years. So I want to separate this. So for my recovery, I attended RMT sessions that were very painful but necessary to help get my back and neck in order. Outside of that, I decided to book myself a relaxation massage at a nice spa a few years ago. And so I went in, gonna go do my thing. And I got in there, and I was laying down, and, you know, the lights are dim, and there was music on, and that was at a point when I was just really intolerant. It was really, you know, not relaxing for me. And so I'd ask this, this practitioner. I'm like, Hey, do you mind actually, just turning the music off? And she's like, Sure. So she turned it down, like, a couple levels, and came back and started going in. I was like, Oops, nope, sorry. Do you mind turning it off, off, so that there's no sound? And she just couldn't cope with that. She's like, what you don't want sound, okay, like officers turn it off, and then I think she just felt weird. And that was her own journey, bless her heart, but, but to the point of, you know that type of experience very much. A lot of patients who might have PPCs going in to see various practitioners, they might be asking for things like that, and if the practitioner isn't, as I say, concussion informed, they may receive similar feedback. And so, yeah, I just, I just wanted to share that that's just an offshoot that came to mind. And I was like, Yeah, this just kind of drives the point further.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  33:31

And in a lot of physical therapy clinics, you've got open therapy bays where you've got a lot of people all kind of in one space together. And so I could also see in in that sense that, you know, it can be difficult when you're coming in and there's all this kind of commotion going on around you. I mean, I know, for me, I've never understood how anybody can take their laptop to a coffee shop and get any kind of work done, because I need, like, complete silence and zero distraction in order to focus, I don't. I don't need the opposite, which is people coming and going and talking and music and the sound of the coffee machines. I'm just like, I don't understand how that's even a thing.

 

Chaandani Khan  34:11

Let me ask you this, did you feel that way before your injuries in the 2012 sort of to 2014 period? Think about coffee shops. Think about being at an event or a concert or a busy environment, traveling in an airplane. Think about those

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  34:27

well. So my first concussion was when I was 18, and I got kicked in the head, and after that, I had a change in my hearing, where it was really hard to hear other people in busy environments. Yes, and I have a whole section of that in my book, but so I think that I when I was younger, I for sure, hung out at coffee shops, but I never, I don't think I could ever really get much work done at a coffee shop, and I also didn't love being in really loud noise. Environments, because I just couldn't hear the people I was with. And it was always a little frustrating to be like, what would you say? What'd you say? What?

 

Chaandani Khan  35:09

Yeah, I thank you for sharing that, and I know from experience, exactly what you're talking about in terms of the loud environment. And I was curious just, you know, being that you had your first concussion at 18, of course, that could have shifted some things for you starting then, but, you know, being in a coffee shop, that is something that I have personally been very effective by as well. So I was nodding away when you're sharing this, and this is something that, you know, I've shared throughout to every practitioner I've ever worked with, to speaking on podcasts, to working with people one on one, to, you know, bringing that into how I teach now with practitioners as well coffee shops. It's so funny, because you're right. For some people, they go and they read a book, and it's, it's, it's an ideal environment. It's, It's total chaos, if you ask me. But in my experience of this, I'm kind of opposite from you. So now, nowadays, I mean, oh my gosh, since my injury, coffee shops are not relaxing. I can't hear, I can't focus. It feels like overwhelming chaos. There's movement, there's sound, everything, there's smell, right? Like all the senses are engaged. However, in my before life, I used to work in events, and so I traveled often. Airplanes are very loud by the way. I traveled often I was, you know, being in a crowd of 100,000 or 500,000 people was very normal for me, and I did excel in that space. That is when I focus my best. And I was a person in those days where I constantly, I mean, I worked remotely a lot of the time. So I was constantly working on airplanes, on trains, in coffee shops, in restaurants, in the middle of a five, 500,000 person event. So I had that experience where, for me, I was just, that is where I tapped in, and I was my most efficient. I think, like, there's something to be said here about being an A type and, you know, in overdrive, but that's a whole other conversation. So for me, it's just been this massive shift where now you bring up coffee shops and, like, that's, that's a massive topic in my personal life and my personal experience.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  36:53

So yeah, and for so long, I didn't understand why I had so much anxiety when I would say, go to a restaurant with a group of people, or, you know, a party, or whatever it was, where there was just a lot of people and a lot of noise and a lot of conversations. So for the thing that you know is I often am kind of stunned by is the fact that when I had post concussion syndrome, I didn't know I had post concussion syndrome. I just knew I was struggling in life, and I didn't quite know why, until I had my light bulb moment that went off. And so for so long, I just didn't know why I felt anxious and uncomfortable in my own skin. And then, obviously, once I recognized what was going on, and I was like, oh, aha. This all makes sense. I just remember very clearly, my sister and I went to New Orleans in 2021 for a little sister getaway vacation, and we were walking down Bourbon Street on a Saturday night, and I was walking down the street, and I was like, I can handle this. And it was, I mean, it was the moment where it's like, yeah, I mean, we're talking 10 years or more of not being comfortable in busy environments and avoiding concerts and avoiding crowds and avoiding, you know, state fairs and avoiding all that stuff, and then to be able to walk down Bourbon Street and feel relaxed in my own skin on a Saturday Night.

 

Chaandani Khan  38:20

Okay, I have goose bumps. I genuinely do, because what you're sharing, like, it's still, it still really strikes a chord with me. I can still I feel what you're feeling. I feel what you're describing that is massive. And if somebody hasn't lived the experience that you have with your multiple concussions, especially in a short period of time in PPCS, or the PPCS I experienced, they wouldn't quite grasp that. But that alone, I mean, just like it's, it's probably one of the most chaotic environments you could ever paint to drop into. So, so that's huge. And of course, it stands out to you as this, um, this flashbulb memory of, aha,

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  38:52

yeah, it was kind of a victory moment. Not that I need to be on Bourbon Street frequently,

 

Chaandani Khan  38:57

yeah, let's be clear, Ayla does do some incredible work. She's not always on Bourbon Street!

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  39:02

yeah. So, I mean, I think too some people start to feel hopeless. They feel like, oh, is this ever going to get better? And for me, you know, I had two concussions that were 10 days apart, maybe in 2012 and then another one in 2013 then I had one in 2018 and I actually just hit my head two months ago, and I had symptoms for 10 days. And so again, it's like people often have this sense of hopelessness, and sometimes it's nice to hear that. For me, I don't feel like I'm missing out on life by not going to concerts and events, and I'm such an introvert that I don't feel like I'm missing out. But to be able to have the flexibility to be okay in those environments, if I find myself in them, that's important to me. And so it took a very long time, but it was like, Hey, I made it. It happened. Yeah.

 

Chaandani Khan  40:00

It's a massive moment of triumph. I hope you found some way to celebrate it, or I did, too, you know, to your point of the hopelessness piece that that is huge in the space of PPCS, yeah, and, you know, living that myself. So again, I will just kind of remind for our listeners that, you know, I have always had this, raise my hand and say, I am a high achiever. I'm a type A, I'm high functioning. I, you know, I'm a lifelong leader and learner. Like this has really been my personality forever, really, and so for me to live like that, and you know, whenever it previously, I came up against a struggle or something, I was like, well, I'll push through. Well, I'll make it through. Well, I'll learn my way through. Well, I'll just do it right. And so for me to experience something like PPCS, where I was complete rug pulled completely from under me, you know, living this I remember this time where, this time in my life, I should say, where I was in a time of my life where a lot of people around me, whether it was friends or communities, etc, etc, people were moving forward. They were hitting these stereotypical trajectory or milestones, you know, buying places, traveling to certain areas, getting married, having kids, like this whole type of, you know, transition was happening.

 

But for me, you know, with that personality described where I was at in my life is boiling water and frying an egg at the same time, the same time, the level of multitasking involved in that took me months to be able to get into so that I can complete that type of task successfully. So when you talk about, you know, facing hopelessness, I mean, from from my own experience, that the worst thing in the world was just not having an end date, because I think you definitely relate with us. I'm just going to make that sweeping assumption, but you are a goal oriented person, and you know you work towards goals. You're high achieving. You know you want to continue that momentum, and know where you're going, and know what the trajectory is like. But all of a sudden, when you find yourself in a position where you do not have your cognitive wherewithal, you do not have an understanding of what's even happening, or maybe all the ways you're struggling, you do know that you're not yourself anymore, and you don't have an end date in sight. That is extraordinarily confronting.

 

And so whether it's my experience or, again, what I've just heard from hundreds of people over the years, that is a very that's a huge piece, and that's what really, you know, pulls at my heartstrings, and that's initially, when I started serving one to one, because I know that what I refer to stuckness in the work that I do, that in PPCS, people can hit a certain point of stuckness. And I also, unsurprisingly, specialize in working with personalities like my own, that, you know, lifelong leaders and learners, the high achievers, because I understand that that personality type process is that type of loss in a very specific way. So, you know, my heart is in it and and and even to this day, I consistently receive referrals, and I'm so deeply grateful, you know, for people to be willing to reach out or to have their contact information passed on, etc, but I feel that I want to create systemic change that then trickles down and affects everybody positively.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  42:58

Yeah, that's incredible, and it pulls on my heartstrings too. As somebody who practices traditional East Asian medicine, I have a lot of other practitioners that are in my profession who have had concussions and then had and then reached out to me, and, you know, asked me to help them. And so it's, you know when, when I'm seeing a fellow colleague who is now facing the that kind of fear of, when am I going to get better? When am I going to be able to return back to work, if at all? I mean, I really viscerally feel that, because I know what that's like. And there was, you know, there was a point where I could only see about two patients a day, and that was as much as I could tolerate. And so I know, I know what that feels like, and it's scary,

 

Chaandani Khan  43:48

terrifying. It's like there's this I often talk about this, and I'm going to take us here. Let me know if you'd like to stay or move elsewhere. But you know what I really often talk about, because I think it's so important in terms of just really facilitating a greater understanding of PPCS. There is the, you know, the high level there's the high level pieces. This is the physical struggle. This is not being able to work. This is not being yourself anymore, not volunteering, not being a community, for example. But you know, others are able to more easily perceive, not always, sometimes. But then there's also the second level that I describe in the PPCS journey, and that really that is a deeply profound experience that a lot of people go through, which is being ripped away from a sense of self. You know, it's like people talk about not, people talk about not defining yourself by external factors, but I think that a lot of people do, whether intentionally or not, and when you have all these external factors suddenly ripped away from you, including your cognitive wherewithal, who are you? Right? And like the whole the whole rest of that like, that's also, you know, my heart isn't serving people one to one, because I understand that. I've lived it, but I also have made it through. I also have strategies I also can engage in. Conversations that help people find a way to introspect and to move through that piece, because losing a sense of who you were is just it's very hard to put into words,

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  45:09

yeah. And I think that that deep kind of spiritual journey is not often part of the conversation in healthcare at all.

 

Chaandani Khan  45:18

Oh, absolutely, it's Yeah. And to an extent. I mean, I do understand, if you know, healthcare tends to be fairly, fairly siloed, right? We have experts in specific places, and we need and want them there, and that's what they handle. But in traditional medical, Eastern medicine, of course, what you practice is very different Eastern medicine and maybe blending into spirituality and other holistic spaces. But traditional that's not covered. So that's one of the massive gaps that I saw on the space just someone who, you know, understood my entire experience, the whole thing, and how do I move through on the whole piece? Because, in my opinion, and again, based on myself and based on hundreds of other people that have been sharing pain points and challenges, these two are interconnected at some point in time, right? Absolutely,

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  46:02

And I'm curious, now that you're six years out, you said that you used to be very athletic. Do you still exercise or do Do you have certain hobbies now that keep you physically active, that that you're able to do?

 

Chaandani Khan  46:15

Yeah, so I'm actually, I'm so proud of myself. It took me years to get back to these very intense, heated hit workouts that I do. I was I was practicing that way, practicing. I mean, I was working out in that way for many years. I had this injury and, I mean, I had a whole myriad of myriad of struggles. I mean, anything from my lefts and rights being confused to Heart Rate Variability issues to just so many things that prevented me, not to mention neck and back injuries and other, you know, chronic fatigue and other pieces. It was a whole mess. I couldn't do it. It took me years. I have been pushing towards getting back. I'm now in the exact same workouts that I used to do, which gives me so much joy and so much pride and, you know, like anytime in that room, I just, like, look at myself in the mirror, and I just genuinely feel so deeply proud, because I am a person who does bear those emotional scars, and I still work through some parts that are challenging for me, yet I show up, and I'm there, and my body shows up for me. I show up for myself. And, you know, I'm putting I'm like, doesn't say like, and I'm putting muscle on, which sounds so funny. This is my inner dialog. We just had an indoor thought, escape outdoors. It's okay, but, but, I mean, that's part of it, right? Like, it's like feeling good. It's that energy. It's, it's, yeah, it's so that is something I'm really happy with. Um, again, in means of my vulnerability, I will also share that I am back and I am capable of being in that room.

 

But I will say that in the particular studio that I work at and work out at, sorry, not work at the studio that I work out at there, you know, there's people with a variety of, you know, people in a variety of like, whether it's health space or fitness level, it's just a mix of people. I will say that I still do struggle with heart rate variability that has not fully resolved. And so with certain movements, where my hands are, you know, at shoulder, shoulder height or above my head, my heart absolutely races. And then all of a sudden, very quickly, I'm on the brink of either passing out or throwing up, to be very, very honest with you. And so that I wanted to share that, because I am the only person, consistently, for various parts of that class, who drops down to her knees to try to manage my heart rate a bit, whereas everyone of all these varying levels, everyone is standing, everyone's completing the workout standing. So for me, it's also very clear to me that this is an example of, you know, I'm able to be there. I'm so proud. I'm getting a great workout. I'm having the best sweat of my life every time I go. And I'm so proud, but I'm still not quite at my normal or even at an A usual expectation for the class. So anyway, that I just want to share that piece physically, and there's more what I'm doing physically, but yeah,

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  48:55

That has to be such a good feeling to know that you can get back, and even if you have to make some modifications, the fact that, yeah, back and that shows that there's still more that can be done.

 

Chaandani Khan  49:06

Absolutely, that's exactly it. It's just, it's just opportunity for continued growth, for continued improvement. That's exactly

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  49:11

it. Is there anything else that you want to share in terms of what you're doing, as far as the work you're doing with Chiropractic Clinics and physical therapy clinics and kind of these concussion rehab specialty clinics. And you mentioned something about a community forum.

 

Chaandani Khan  49:28

Yeah. So thank you for bringing this up. So right now, as I mentioned, I'm teaching educational workshops to various practitioners, various other practitioners, like on an individual level, as well as concussion clinics, rehab clinics. I've actually had a couple educational institutions reach out to me, which is really interesting angle to think about. So that's kind of in the works. And what I'm also building is an online learning community for professionals. So this is a space that will contain things like, you know, pre loaded video content, potentially Mini. Courses, you know, discussion forum, one on ones with me, ebooks, this kind of material, and it's really designed specifically for practitioners who treat the concussion space, which you know could be anything from a doctor, a neurologist, occupational therapist, Kinesiologist, and then, you know, all these different various hands on, body based treatment providers, generally, these people have pretty tight schedules, and so it's meant to be a resource that they can just pop into, grab a resource and go and so that that is, you know, coming down the pipeline. I'm very excited about building that out that will be launching, you know, this year, ideally in summer, but we're going to say TVC, so I have a few other things in the works too,

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  50:38

okay? And then when you're talking to these clinics is that also like live, I mean, like through zoom, or is that pre recorded videos that people are watching?

 

Chaandani Khan  50:49

So currently I'm presenting in a live fashion. I am presenting virtually live. If a clinic is interested in an in person presentation, that's something we're definitely able to talk about. I'm in talks with two clinics right now about an in person, just their own preference versus others, sure, yeah, and that's, that's how I'm currently showing up.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  51:07

Awesome. And then where can people find you? And all of these resources.

 

Chaandani Khan  51:11

So my website is www, dot, returntolife.ca. Spelled traditionally, I believe it will be in the show notes as well. You're also welcome to find me on LinkedIn. My name is Chaandani Khan. I would love to connect with you to share more resources there, and if you'd like to send me an email, I'm always open to hearing from you know, practitioners or people with PPCs, or someone who's outside of the space and maybe wants to talk about a various type of collaboration. My email is Hello@returntolife.ca.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  51:41

Perfect. I'll definitely put all that in the show notes. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, and I definitely want to do this again in the

 

Chaandani Khan  51:50

future. Thank you so much for having me. This was a really great conversation. I'm very excited for your book.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  51:56

Thank you. Should be out next week, so I will let you know as soon as it's available. Amazing. Yeah, yeah. Well, I will put all your contact information with your LinkedIn, your website. Do you want me to do your Instagram?

 

Chaandani Khan  52:09

Let's throw it on there. That's you know. Need to give my Instagram some love, but there is some content on there.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  52:15

Okay, great. I know what that feels like. You know, it's hard to be everywhere all at once.

 

Chaandani Khan  52:21

Yes, just Yes. Hard stop.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  52:25

Yep, excellent. Well, I'll put all that in there. And thank you so much. This has been great.

 

Chaandani Khan  52:31

Thank you. I'll talk to you again soon.

 

Dr. Ayla Wolf  52:36

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